JULIAN LENNON on Art, Empathy & Creativity - Highlights

JULIAN LENNON on Art, Empathy & Creativity - Highlights

Interviewed by Mia Funk

What is the power of photography? How do images and songs bookmark our lives, reminding us of what we care about, who we love, and what it means to be alive?

Julian Lennon is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, photographer, documentary filmmaker, and NYTimes bestselling author of the Touch the Earth children’s book trilogy. This autumn, Whispers – A Julian Lennon Retrospective is being presented at Le Stanze della Fotografia, culminating in the publication of Life’s Fragile Moments, his first photography book. It features a compilation of images that span over two decades of Lennon's unique life, career, adventures, and philanthropy. He founded The White Feather Foundation in 2007, whose key initiatives are education, health, conservation, and the protection of indigenous cultures. He was the executive producer of Kiss the Ground and other environmental documentaries and was named a Peace Laureate by UNESCO in 2020.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Congratulations on Life's Fragile Moments. I hadn't realized it's your first book of photography, even though you've done 40 exhibitions. There's a lot of beauty. There's sadness, too. There are these grace notes—the friends, the friends that you have, the friends that have gone on to another place. I find the whole thing is this love letter to friendship, the arts, these creative friendships that you've had, the communities, all these countries, and Mother Earth. For those who don't yet have the book in their hands, it's punctuated beautifully with these moments—these mysterious mountainscapes or the clouds, it's like a dream world. Just knowing you as a musician, I also felt that there's stillness and silence—a sonic element.

JULIAN LENNON

I'd wanted to do a photography book for quite some time now with various collections. When I started doing collections of Cuba or New York or other locations, there were anywhere from 20, 30, 40, to 50 images within these collections because I believed that's what you needed to be able to tell the story. With a retrospective, which the book actually became, I had to find a way to tell the same story with four images or eight images as opposed to 40 or 50. It really allowed me to consider thinking about things in the future about how I'm going to put collections together—if I can tell that same story in just a few pictures, that's a better way of approaching things. I think that's the beauty of photography, too. You can say so many things or so little, half of it's up to the viewer as to what they take away. That's the thing for me that is not dissimilar to music. I just want to do the work, what feels right to me and put it out into the world. I just want whoever's listening to take away whatever they can take away, whatever they feel, and what resonates with them from the music. You're not telling the people how to feel, how to think, it's just what they take away from what you present. It can depend on the person's mind and their heart and how they're feeling that day or what mood they're in. I think everybody has their own truth. And that's a weird one to really grasp because, in so many respects, we're all the same, but we're so different, which I find fascinating.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Yes, and it’s so interesting. As you said, many of the artistic mediums do this, but it’s particularly strong with music and photography. They are touchstones for people. You begin the book with an introduction written by your friend, Timothy White. Also, you mention friends who have passed, like Mark Spiro. What was it like to put this together and to honor them?

LENNON

Timothy White was the one that kind of pushed me to do my first-ever exhibition. I never dreamt that I'd be doing this ever in a million years. For three days before the opening, I was beyond a state of panic and anxiety and depression. So I was overjoyed when the exhibition finally opened, and we had some of the reviews, which for me were mind-blowing. I couldn't believe I was being considered a fine art photographer. But having that initial encouragement from both sides really made a difference. And as you said, Mark Spiro, a friend for over 20, 30 years, has been one of my songwriting collaborators who sadly passed away earlier this year. We were all hoping he was going to pull through. I wanted to honor him and those people who have affected me in a particular deep emotional way. So it was important to show that it's not about the work, but it's about the people who are involved—that surround you in life during and through the work that you do in life, you know. This is a human endeavor.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

You really trace those friendships, even going back to your oldest friend and first music collaborator, Justin Clayton. That's so beautiful—you have this ongoing collaboration and friendship. And it's so interesting because I know that that's been a theme throughout your life and also your philanthropic work: that we are all one. Like when you went to Cuba, you really capture all these moments in different countries where people aren't as influenced completely by a capitalist system. And I think it's just so beautiful. I mean, I feel like we own possessions, but they end up possessing us. 

LENNON

You're absolutely spot on. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I've really enjoyed those emails from people who can't travel, whether it's financial or whether it's because of a physical disability, that say thank you for taking us to those places and that we enjoy your perspective of those places. I find that that's so special and so heartwarming to be able to do that. From traveling in especially Ethiopia, Kenya, and South America, we just see these situations where governments aren't helping, people aren't helping, or they don't have enough support or finances behind the initiatives and programs that do exist. Anything I'm involved in, a good percentage goes to White Feather to keep it ticking over.

From what I witnessed, I just wanted to be able to help. I mean, the girls’ schools that we went to in Kenya–they wanted to do so much and be so much and help so much, but just didn't have the support that they needed. Some girls would be walking anywhere between two and six hours to get to and from school, and many would have been murdered on the way. Many had been raped on the way. So that was staring me blindly in the face—build a dormitory so the girls had somewhere to stay, so that they could rest, be protected with security in school, get on with work, and focus on what they wanted to do and what they wanted to become, which the majority—were to be lawyers, who would be able to protect and fight for not only the land that they lived on, but their families.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

You do an enormous amount. And I wonder where your great empathy came from. You see problems in the world, and you don't think, “Oh, that's somebody else's problem.” You see what you can do about it and how you can bring others on board. I guess a lot of your education has been outside of the classroom, and you've talked about some of those collaborators you’ve learned from. Who have been those important teachers in your life?

LENNON

Most important and my best teacher ever was Mum, because I watched her live through life with dignity, grace, respect, and empathy. So, to me, those are some of the key things that are most important in living life. I think you have to love everybody and yourself. It's not always easy, but respect is a real key issue—not only for people but for this world that we live in, Mother Earth. It's key importance that we honor and respect this beautiful little blue ball that we live on. Nothing is easy. Nothing is fair, but take what joy you can. And I think a lot of joy comes from helping others. In some respects with some of the photography and some of the work that I've done, I'm a teacher of sorts with the children's books and documentaries. I'm always trying to be as positive as I can. I've been through moments where you don't think there's a way out, and you don't think there's light at the end of the tunnel, and that's a tough place to be. We've seen with so many creatives that they give so much of themselves. Life is exhausting. But when you're going that extra mile, it takes that much more out of you. I've been really focusing on finding that balance in life—what's real, what's true, and what makes you happy, how can you help other people have a happier life. I think it’s whatever that takes. So if that's charity, if that's photography, if that's documentary, if that's music, and I can do it, then I'm going to do it.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

We're talking about the toll it takes on artists—how much they give, and they plumb from their depths. We are now on a threshold with AI. You talk about photography—you're only using natural light in your pictures. You're going to the places, you're taking the photographs in the real world. Now, we're at this point where some of us are outsourcing our creativity to AI, to this little black box. Also, copyright is not being respected. It's changing all these fields. I just wonder what your broader reflections are on all this—your hopes and the challenges we face.

LENNON

I think AI is very interesting on the creative side of things because it can give you different perspectives. Obviously, copyright issues are very important. That’s how we artists live. That’s what belongs to us in many respects. I think the most inspiring thing, truly though, about AI is in the medical field. And the way that we hope to be able to find treatments and cures that did not exist before. We're already seeing, even within the last few months, if not the last year, how changes are coming. I think that's a really good thing for us on the whole, in regards to the medical field, as long as we can get our hands on what helps us. I think the natural world offers natural medicines. It's been well observed that since man has been screwing around with everything we touch and feel and breathe and eat and drink, that's where all the cancers have been coming from. I like this place. I want to maintain it as best as I can. Hopefully, we're strong enough to realize what's truly important and look after this beautiful place. Many scientists have said that we're reaching a tipping point. The Earth will always survive. It's us that won't. And it's a shame that people don't realize that greed is quite ugly, to say the least.

One of the things that I've been really focusing on is finding that balance in life, what’s real and what’s true and what makes you happy. How can you help other people feel the same and have a happier life? I think whatever that takes. So if that's charity, if that's photography, if that's documentary, if that's music, and I can do it, then I'm going to do it.

Photo of Julian Lennon © 2021 Marilyn Clark

This episode features “I Should Have Known (Spike Stent Version)” by Julian Lennon, courtesy of Julian Lennon, part of his 2024 reimagined release.

For the full conversation, listen to the episode.
Associate Interview Producer and Associate Text Editor on this episode was Nadia Lam. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.

Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer, and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions).
Listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

 
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Interviews - FEATURED
THE DIPLOMAT
THE DIPLOMAT

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JULIAN LENNON
JULIAN LENNON

Singer-songwriter · Documentary Filmmaker · Founder of The White Feather Foundation
Photographer/Author of Life’s Fragile Moments
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Fmr. European Chair for Sustainable Development & Climate Transition · Sciences Po
Development Clinician focused on Cities & Nation States

How do you have economic growth that is socially equitable and environmentally sustainable? It's not just that you have ecological sustainability; hence, that is sustainable development. Because lots of examples of economic, ecological, and ecologically sensitive growth need not be socially equitable. That's why this whole emphasis on just transition is not just about climate, but it's also about justice. It's about social equity in economic growth. Unlike in Europe, where there is now the call for degrowth or a circular economy, most parts of the world would look at you blankly if you talked about degrowth because they are hungry for growth. And so sustainable development is about managing these trade-offs.

From Ancient Wisdom to the Language of the Earth
From Ancient Wisdom to the Language of the Earth

Scientists, Artists, Psychologists & Spiritual Leaders Share their Stories and insights on the importance of connecting with nature, preserving the environment, embracing diversity, and finding harmony in the world.

JAY JORDAN & ISABELLE FRÉMEAUX
JAY JORDAN & ISABELLE FRÉMEAUX

Artists, Activists & Anarchists Seize Wetlands from the French Republic
Authors of We are ‘Nature’ Defending Itself: Entangling Art, Activism and Autonomous Zones
the story of a 40-year struggle to preserve 4,000 acres of wetlands from being destroyed to make way for an airport

DOUG LARSON
DOUG LARSON

Award-winning Scientist · Ecologist · Professor Emeritus · University of Guelph
Author of Cliff Ecology · The Urban Cliff Revolution · The Dogma At My Homework

I think one thing I learned from looking at the ancient trees is that there is no great benefit to anything of growing quickly and accumulating vast resources. Growing slowly and patiently and with fewer demands on the environment in which you live is just as healthy and perhaps more healthy than the endless hunger for more and more and more, which we see as a characteristic of our species.

THOMAS CROWTHER
THOMAS CROWTHER

Ecologist · Founder of Restor
Co-chair of the Board for the UN Decade on Ecosystem Restoration

Global restoration really means finding and empowering the millions of local communities, indigenous populations, and farmers who are promoting biodiversity. Restor is a digital platform, sort of like Google Maps, but for restoration. So rather than seeing coffee shops and supermarkets, you will see conservation projects and Indigenous-led restoration initiatives. And that means you can find a currently on Restor - I think we have around 140, 000 - so you can go on there for free right now and find thousands and thousands of these amazing heroes of nature. And you can zoom in and you can see every single tree on the ground. You can see every bush and you can fund them or you can buy their coffee or you can go visit their projects and do ecotourism. There's a myriad of ways that we can all support their efforts by also improving our own lives. 

We need to be cutting our emissions so that we can allow nature to thrive and help us along the way. For far too long people have been squabbling about emissions. We should do this or we should do that. Climate change is way too big for us to be squabbling about things. We need to do everything now. When we grow the same crops every year, the soil gets more depleted and all the nutrients are lost. I've heard quotes that if we cannot find agricultural systems that rejuvenate the soil instead of depleting it, we are signing our death warrant. It's like we need to be promoting healthy soils if we're going to have any agriculture in the future.

PETER D. DITLEVSEN
PETER D. DITLEVSEN

Professor of Physics, Ice, Climate & Earth at the Niels Bohr Institute

What happens if we lose the Greenland ice sheet and pass the tipping points and Earth systems shut down?

If that shuts down, roughly speaking, the climate of Northern Europe would be like the climate of Alaska. So, climate models that actually simulate what happens when it's shut down, would say that England becomes like Northern Norway, which means that food security and things like that will be threatened because you cannot grow many crops in Northern Norway. And other models say precipitation changes, so places that are wet might become dry, and so on. So, these are of course severe consequences for Europe, but in some sense, this is going in the opposite direction of global warming. We're all talking about we're getting into a warmer world, but I'm talking about a cooling here. But the warm water that does not then flow from the tropics into the North Atlantic will stay in the tropics. And there, you're not contra-balancing global warming. There you will have the heating on top of the global warming. And that I see as maybe the largest problem we have is that the tropics become even warmer. And we have to realize if you live in a place where mean temperatures are maybe late thirties Celsius and or rise to the forties livelihood becomes very difficult.

DR. BARRY SCHWARTZ
DR. BARRY SCHWARTZ

Psychologist · Author of Why We Work
The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less

In 2004, the internet was just getting started in a major league way, and already the choice overload was a problem. I would say that from the modern perspective, 2004 seems like the 18th century, and as near as I can tell, all of these changes, every single one of them has made the problem substantially worse. The idea that you can get information to help guide you through - well, yeah, but what information do you believe? What's trustworthy? What's being motivated by an opportunity to sell you something? So there is a haze, there is this fog that we're operating in. And I think we just sort of give up in resignation and look at recommendations and hope that they're legitimate because how else do you get through the day?

KOHEI SAITO
KOHEI SAITO

Author of Slow Down! How Degrowth Communism Can Save the World
Marx in the Anthropocene: Towards the Idea of Degrowth Communism

The Green New Deal presents itself as a kind of radical policy. If you look at the content, it's just simply the continuation of what capitalism wants to do. It's a massive investment in new, allegedly green industries, with the creation of more jobs with higher wages, but these are not the things that socialists or any environmentalists should be actually seeking because we recognize that capitalism is basically the root cause of the climate crisis and the misery of the workers. If so, I think it is high time to imagine something radically very different from business-as-usual capitalism.

The Long Tradition of American Jewish Critiques of Israel & Their Suppression
The Long Tradition of American Jewish Critiques of Israel & Their Suppression

American Jews were interested and involved in Palestinian rights all the way back to 1948. There's this idea that it came about just now or in the 1970s, but actually as long as there's been a Nakba. As long as there's been Palestinian refugees, there’s been American Jews concerned with that, too. I would say that a lot of times these American Jews were very well informed and spent time in the region, and they came to these conclusions often not in the United States, but over there where they were talking to the Israeli left and meeting Palestinians and seeing a situation that they don't feel is ethical or sustainable.

BEN FRANTA
BEN FRANTA

Founding Head of the Climate Litigation Lab
Senior Research Fellow at University of Oxford’s Sustainable Law Programme

For 40 years, the American Petroleum Institute has hired economists to argue it would be too expensive to try and control fossil fuels and that climate change wasn't that bad. The same go-to consultancy firm has been involved in every major climate policy fight from the very beginning and hired by the fossil fuel industry, but what are the courts going to do? It's not just the historical deception. It's an ongoing deception.

MICHAEL STICKA
MICHAEL STICKA

President/CEO of the GRAMMY Museum

It's actually right in our mission statement that “we celebrate the music of yesterday and today to inspire the music of tomorrow.” And we do it through our exhibits. We have 35,000 square feet of galleries. We travel exhibits, really, all over the world over the world for the past 15 years. And through our education programs, we really focus on the next generation of music's creators and leaders. We do that through really specific curricula that is designed to educate particularly young people, K-12, about the business of music, especially for those who want to go into the industry.

 
 

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