Beyond the Horizon: Pioneering Green Aviation with BERTRAND PICCARD - Aviator, Explorer, Environmentalist

Interviewed by Mia Funk & Katherine Gross

What is the future of green aviation? How do we share environmental solutions to unite people and change the climate narrative from sacrifice and fear to enthusiasm and hope?

Bertrand Piccard is a notable Swiss environmentalist, explorer, author, and psychiatrist. His ventures include being the first to travel around the world in a non-stop balloon flight and years later in a solar-powered airplane. He is regarded as a pioneer in clean technology. Piccard is also the founder of the Solar Impulse Foundation, which has identified over 1500 actionable and profitable climate solutions and connects them with investors. As a UN Ambassador for the Environment, his goal is to convince leaders of the viability of a zero-carbon economy, which he will demonstrate via his next emission-free project Climate Impulse, a green hydrogen-powered airplane that can fly nonstop around the earth.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

So, in 2028, you'll be flying nonstop around the world in a green hydrogen-powered airplane, Climate Impulse. You've achieved the first circumnavigation of the world in a hot air balloon and piloted the first around-the-world solar-powered flight, Solar Impulse - these were great demonstrations of what is possible in terms of harnessing renewable energy. What's exciting about the new hydrogen-powered flight is that it's really offering a tangible solution to decarbonizing air traffic and showing a way forward for the future of aviation. It could revolutionize how we fly.

BERTRAND PICCARD

The goal now is not just to revolutionize energy, like with Solar Impulse. The goal with Climate Impulse is to revolutionize aviation and show that we can decarbonize aviation. We can make it more efficient. Of course, it's not yet a jumbo jet with hydrogen. It's a two-seater airplane. But I want to make the ultimate flight to shake a little bit the certitudes of the people. If we go around the world nonstop with two people on board, this project can become like a flagship of climate action. We will will fly at 10, 000 feet roughly on the track of the Northern Tropic. So above a lot of land, cities, schools, universities, governments, where we can speak about restoring hope, bringing solutions because I'm fed up with all the people who believe there is no future. It's too late to do something. It's useless to try. No, today we have to speak of solutions, not only problems. And, you know, every time innovators and pioneers set ambitious goals, you have a lot of skepticism. You have all the people who think it's not possible. It has never been done like this. We can prove that it doesn't work. It will use too much energy to create the hydrogen. It will be too difficult to dispatch it, and so on.

We have to continue this aviation disruption and always show what we can do with innovation, with the genius of the human mind and creativity. And Climate Impulse is one more step that will show that we can go further than what people consider is impossible.

So it's a partnership I'm doing with a French navigator and composite material engineer Raphaël Dinelli. He dreamed of doing that for years, and me too. And we started working on it together three years ago with the help of Airbus, Daher Aviation, CapGemini, ArianeGroup, making the rockets and the European Space Agency. All these big partners helped us with design, aerodynamics, energy, propulsion systems, and so on. The first main partner who joined us is Syensqo. They are making composite materials, solid-state batteries, fuel cells, insulation for fuel tanks, and things like that. People are happy to hear and understand that there are solutions for aviation, although we are at the beginning.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

How do you produce the green hydrogen?

PICCARD

You produce green hydrogen by using clean, renewable energy, electricity that goes through water to electrolyze the water. And it dissociates the water into a hydrogen and oxygen. You keep the hydrogen, compress it, liquefy it, and put it in a fuel tank that is very, very well insulated. So it will remain in a liquid state several days, but a little bit of it is evaporating. This is what you call the boil-off. And this boil-off is captured, goes through a fuel cell, and with the oxygen from the air, it reconstitutes water and electricity and gives back the electricity to the electric motor. So you fly electric with the energy stored in hydrogen, which means that you have absolutely no noise. You have absolutely no carbon emissions, and you have absolutely no pollution. You just produce water that the pilot can drink during the flight.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Long-haul transoceanic flights maybe a little bit down the road for most passengers, but there are also so many other applications for green hydrogen for industry and transport.

PICCARD

We need hydrogen for the steel industry and for the fertilizer industry. Today, this hydrogen is produced by fractioning methane, fractioning natural gas. So, you keep the hydrogen and release the CO2 in the atmosphere, which is really not good. So the goal is to switch from this dirty production of hydrogen into a clean production of hydrogen for the industry, and of course for heavy mobility.

I don't believe so much in using hydrogen for light mobility because small batteries are more efficient, but when you have heavy trucks, trains, boats, planes, then it's too heavy to carry batteries, and hydrogen will be the best compromise.

Photos courtesy of Solar Impulse Foundation
COPSummit
Simon Stiell, Executive Secretary of the UNFCCC
Ville de Demain exhibition, Cité des sciences et de l'industrie, Paris

Bertrand Piccard with Syensqo CEO Ilham Kadri
Syensqo is the main technological partner of Climate Impulse
Bertrand Piccard @ Solar Impulse, Jean Revillard

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

You’ve written about the importance of environmental realism and the importance of being logical as well as ecological.

PICCARD

In the beginning, I spoke about the beauty of nature, the magic of life on Earth, the importance of protecting everything that is around us, and I was maybe a bit naive. I thought it was enough to protect the environment. Of course, it creates a lot of applause when you speak about the beauty of nature that you have flown over with your hot air balloon, solar airplane, or whatever, but it changes nothing because the language of the key decision-makers is not the language of the beauty of nature. It's the language of profit, job creation, and developing the economy.

Modernizing to Thrive: A New Narrative for Climate Action

In a lot of regions of the world, ecology has started to be a hostage of political parties. You have the left wing, which takes ecology as its flagship. You have the right wing, which is fighting against ecology because they want to fight against the left wing, and they use all the arguments of ecology to destroy ecology. It's very strange that the people who want to protect the environment are not able to make their cause much more appealing. This is what I try to do with the new narrative of the Solar Impulse Foundation: to show the opportunities more than the risks. To show the solutions more than the problems.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Since we last spoke, generative AI has emerged, consuming significant amounts of energy but also presenting efficiency opportunities for future-ready cities. How can we capitalize on its benefits while implementing governance to mitigate potential drawbacks?

PICCARD

So it's what you do with the invention that's important. And with AI, it's exactly the same. If you make deep fakes, I think you can just destroy trust and confidence in the world because you will never know what is true and what is false, but if you use AI to balance the grid, to incorporate renewable energies that are intermittent, the storage, the usage by consumers, then you begin to be much more efficient because you use energy at the right moment, in the right way, at the right place, for the right people, you will save a lot of energy. So, in the end, it's always human behavior that decides if an invention is good or not. What I would really like to avoid is AI being used for useless things.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

For someone who cares deeply about the individual experience, what are your reflections on the future of education and AI?

PICCARD

You have the brain, and you have the heart, and you cannot feed only the brain without feeding the heart. So feeding the heart means creating authentic relations between people and educating children to have compassion, empathy, and respect for others, nature, animals, and other human beings. I'm a bit afraid that today we feed only the brain and not the heart. And when we want to put these Neuralink implants in the brain, we forget that there is the heart where maybe we should also work a little bit more.

1618289830-SI_FOUNDATION_1000+SOLUTIONS_VISUAL_PROD_16_9_12_04_2021.jpg

1000+ Actionable & Profitable Climate Solutions

All the holders of solutions, all the innovators could be a startup or a big company, can submit their solution to us, and the solution will be analyzed by our group of experts. We have external and independent experts, about 370 of them, and they will observe three criteria: Is it a solution that exists today and is credible today? Because we don't want to have vague ideas for the future. We want to have solutions for today. Then it needs to be economically profitable for the company who produces it and for the consumer. The people buying the solution must save money, otherwise it's not profitable. And it needs to protect the environment, either because it's much better than anything else existing today, or because it's clearly a new business opportunity to protect the environment.

If you have these criteria that are all three positive, then the experts will give a recommendation that we give the label, and then they will receive the label. The Solar Impulse Efficient Solution Label is currently the first and only label in the world that certifies the profitability of an environmentally friendly product. Runway is a tool to connect investors and startups who are looking for investments because in the end, what we need is to have the solutions being implemented. These innovators, they need to grow their company and bring these solutions on the market. And this is what we are helping to do.

Main photo credit: Jean Revillard
Photos courtesy of Solar Impulse Foundation

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Katherine Gross with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Katie Foster and Katherine Gross.One Planet Podcast & The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.

Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions).
Listen on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Interviews - FEATURED

THE DIPLOMAT

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UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network

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Award-winning Climate Activist
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Psychologist
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Emmy Award-winning · Oscar-nominated Composer · Musician
1 0 0 1 · Silfur · Transparent · Lion

The album 1 0 0 1 is really like a journey from our connection with nature to where we are now, in this moment where we're playing with technology. We're almost in this hybrid space, not fully understanding where it's going. And it's very deep in our subconscious and probably much greater than we realize. And it sort of ends in this space where the consciousness of what we're creating, it's going to be very separate from us. And I believe that's kind of where it's heading – the idea of losing humanity, losing touch with nature and becoming outside of something that we have created.

JEFFREY ROSEN

President & CEO of the National Constitution Center
Author of The Pursuit of Happiness: How Classical Writers on Virtue Inspired the Lives of the Founders and Defined America

That idea of planting seeds for future generations came from the Tusculan Disputations. There’s something especially empowering about Cicero. And it's very striking that Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and so many in the Founding Era viewed this manual about overcoming grief as the definition for achieving happiness. And I think it's because it's a philosophy of self-mastery, self-improvement, and self-empowerment.

BERTRAND PICCARD

Explorer & Aviator of the First Round-the-World Solar-powered Flight
Founder of Solar Impulse Foundation & Climate Impulse

The goal with Climate Impulse is to revolutionize aviation and show that we can decarbonize aviation. Of course, it's not yet a jumbo jet with hydrogen. It's a two-seater airplane. If we go around the world nonstop with two people on board, this project can become like a flagship of climate action.

ED ZWICK

Academy Award-winning Writer, Director & Producer
Glory · The Last Samurai · Shakespeare in Love · Thirtysomething
Author of NYTimes Bestseller Hits, Flops & Other Illusions: My Fortysomething Years in Hollywood

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Emmy & Golden Globe-winning Executive Producer · Director
Tokyo Vice · Six Feet Under · Tales of the City · My So-Called Life

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SASHA LUCCIONI

Founding Member of Climate Change AI
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DR. SHIV SOMESHWAR

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Development Clinician focused on Cities & Nation States

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Ecologist · Founder of Restor
Co-chair of the Board for the UN Decade on Ecosystem Restoration

Global restoration really means finding and empowering the millions of local communities, indigenous populations, and farmers who are promoting biodiversity. Restor is a digital platform, sort of like Google Maps, but for restoration. So rather than seeing coffee shops and supermarkets, you will see conservation projects and Indigenous-led restoration initiatives. And that means you can find a currently on Restor - I think we have around 140, 000 - so you can go on there for free right now and find thousands and thousands of these amazing heroes of nature. And you can zoom in and you can see every single tree on the ground. You can see every bush and you can fund them or you can buy their coffee or you can go visit their projects and do ecotourism. There's a myriad of ways that we can all support their efforts by also improving our own lives.

We need to be cutting our emissions so that we can allow nature to thrive and help us along the way. For far too long people have been squabbling about emissions. We should do this or we should do that. Climate change is way too big for us to be squabbling about things. We need to do everything now. When we grow the same crops every year, the soil gets more depleted and all the nutrients are lost. I've heard quotes that if we cannot find agricultural systems that rejuvenate the soil instead of depleting it, we are signing our death warrant. It's like we need to be promoting healthy soils if we're going to have any agriculture in the future.

PETER D. DITLEVSEN

Professor of Physics, Ice, Climate & Earth at the Niels Bohr Institute

What happens if we lose the Greenland ice sheet and pass the tipping points and Earth systems shut down?

If that shuts down, roughly speaking, the climate of Northern Europe would be like the climate of Alaska. So, climate models that actually simulate what happens when it's shut down, would say that England becomes like Northern Norway, which means that food security and things like that will be threatened because you cannot grow many crops in Northern Norway. And other models say precipitation changes, so places that are wet might become dry, and so on. So, these are of course severe consequences for Europe, but in some sense, this is going in the opposite direction of global warming. We're all talking about we're getting into a warmer world, but I'm talking about a cooling here. But the warm water that does not then flow from the tropics into the North Atlantic will stay in the tropics. And there, you're not contra-balancing global warming. There you will have the heating on top of the global warming. And that I see as maybe the largest problem we have is that the tropics become even warmer. And we have to realize if you live in a place where mean temperatures are maybe late thirties Celsius and or rise to the forties livelihood becomes very difficult.

DR. BARRY SCHWARTZ

Psychologist · Author of Why We Work
The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less

In 2004, the internet was just getting started in a major league way, and already the choice overload was a problem. I would say that from the modern perspective, 2004 seems like the 18th century, and as near as I can tell, all of these changes, every single one of them has made the problem substantially worse. The idea that you can get information to help guide you through - well, yeah, but what information do you believe? What's trustworthy? What's being motivated by an opportunity to sell you something? So there is a haze, there is this fog that we're operating in. And I think we just sort of give up in resignation and look at recommendations and hope that they're legitimate because how else do you get through the day?

KOHEI SAITO

Author of Slow Down! How Degrowth Communism Can Save the World
Marx in the Anthropocene: Towards the Idea of Degrowth Communism

The Green New Deal presents itself as a kind of radical policy. If you look at the content, it's just simply the continuation of what capitalism wants to do. It's a massive investment in new, allegedly green industries, with the creation of more jobs with higher wages, but these are not the things that socialists or any environmentalists should be actually seeking because we recognize that capitalism is basically the root cause of the climate crisis and the misery of the workers. If so, I think it is high time to imagine something radically very different from business-as-usual capitalism.

The Long Tradition of American Jewish Critiques of Israel & Their Suppression

American Jews were interested and involved in Palestinian rights all the way back to 1948. There's this idea that it came about just now or in the 1970s, but actually as long as there's been a Nakba. As long as there's been Palestinian refugees, there’s been American Jews concerned with that, too. I would say that a lot of times these American Jews were very well informed and spent time in the region, and they came to these conclusions often not in the United States, but over there where they were talking to the Israeli left and meeting Palestinians and seeing a situation that they don't feel is ethical or sustainable.

BEN FRANTA

Founding Head of the Climate Litigation Lab
Senior Research Fellow at University of Oxford’s Sustainable Law Programme

For 40 years, the American Petroleum Institute has hired economists to argue it would be too expensive to try and control fossil fuels and that climate change wasn't that bad. The same go-to consultancy firm has been involved in every major climate policy fight from the very beginning and hired by the fossil fuel industry, but what are the courts going to do? It's not just the historical deception. It's an ongoing deception.

MICHAEL STICKA

President/CEO of the GRAMMY Museum

It's actually right in our mission statement that “we celebrate the music of yesterday and today to inspire the music of tomorrow.” And we do it through our exhibits. We have 35,000 square feet of galleries. We travel exhibits, really, all over the world over the world for the past 15 years. And through our education programs, we really focus on the next generation of music's creators and leaders. We do that through really specific curricula that is designed to educate particularly young people, K-12, about the business of music, especially for those who want to go into the industry.

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