Debora Cahn is the Emmy-nominated showrunner and executive producer of Netflix’s The Diplomat, a political thriller series starring Keri Russell and Rufus Sewell. She’s worked with television’s leading showrunners, including Shonda Rhymes, Terence Winter, Steven Levinson, and Howard Gordon. Her career began working on Aaron Sorkin’s The West Wing which has led to projects such as the hit Showtime series Homeland, ABC’s long-running medical drama Grey’s Anatomy, and HBO’s Vinyl, which was co-created by Martin Scorsese. She’s the winner of two Writers Guild of America Award for The West Wing and FX’s limited series Fosse/Verdon.

DEBORA CAHN

So the idea was to look at what it's like to be an ambassador for the United States abroad and to do that in the context of a married couple, both of whom are in the same field. And what kind of tensions come from being in a relationship with somebody where you're both collaborators and personal partners and sometimes competitors? And what does that do to your life? What does it do to your work experience? And it felt like a military alliance and a marriage are not so different in many ways. You know, you get together under certain circumstances, and then time marches on and things change, and both parties change, and you're still in this relationship that either can or can't bend with you.

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I think that we like to look at somebody who's in a leadership position and say, look at what they did. And we don't recognize the fact that there's a huge team of people creating this thing that we attribute to an individual. And certainly, that's the case in political environments. I didn't work in Washington for a long time, but I worked there a little bit, and I very much got a sense of the incredible talent of a group of people who are standing behind somebody who's an elected leader, helping them make decisions and in research and the forming of strategies.

We're attributing to one mind what is the work of 20. I think that's what so many of the characters in that place are bringing to Kate Wyler (played by Keri Russell). And it takes her a while to kind of figure out does she trust them? Does she think that they're really value-added? Is she going to have to do this by herself? Sometimes it takes time to embrace that and be able to utilize the skills that are around you, but nobody does it by themselves. I think that's a myth.

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First of all, how desperate are all of us for lightness and optimism and hope, and a sense of possibility in the people who are navigating and steering world affairs? That was really important to me to bring that in. And I think that I see all really dramatic moments as kind of streaked-through with a bit of the absurd. Those are always the moments that stand out to me. If you're not just at a funeral, but you're at a funeral where somebody dropped their purse, and there's a now a thousand things on the floor and a lot of people trying to pretend that there aren't. Those moments, for me, are the moments where our humanity really kind of shows through the cracks. And I was interested in this world that's so much about a facade and so manicured and presentational and looking at those like tragically human moments that pop up right in the middle of all of that. The juxtaposition between those two things, I find to be delightful.

Kamala Harris is absolutely an influence on the character as is Susan Rice, as is Samantha Power, as is Condoleeza Rice. But I think that all of those women sort of came to positions of power at a time when, for the most part, you know, they were the only woman in the room, in a lot of different environments, and that kind of navigating of being "one of the guys" and also being there as a woman, I think is a particularly elaborate challenge. I think you're a little bit expected to be both at the same time, which is sometimes possible and sometimes not.

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I feel like film and television are often representing corrupt power and evil in leaders. That exists. But I've been writing about people in that world for a long time and have had the privilege of talking to a lot of them. And for the most part, they're smart people with integrity and good values, and they're good at what they do, and they just want to help people in their own country and around the world.

And even with good people at the helm, it can all go to hell and that, to me, is what's most interesting. I always had a hard time reading the newspaper. I found it very overwhelming in the suffering that you're seeing described every single day. And for me, coming at it through the lens of what's a story that I can relate to that I can follow a character through that they're surviving. For me was a kind of a way to come at it and not have to turn away from the darkness.

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I try to look at people in those positions with as much of an open mind as possible. I think they all want the best for the country, but I think the people who are good at walking into a diner and shaking people's hands in a thousand different towns across the country with a lot of very different diners, I think the people who can walk in and handle that and meet absolutely everybody and create an instant connection with them are not necessarily the people who are interested in the kind of granularity of federal regulations and a wide, wide series of topics. I think the people who are good at those things have cultivated over the course of their life, different parts of themselves and grown different strengths. But then there comes this moment where we want one person to be able to do all of it, and we're somehow surprised when they're not good at every piece. 

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I think that I would like young people to know that I didn't think I was going to do this. I was not a good writer when I was young. I was not in this field until I was in my thirties. I did a bunch of other stuff, and I came into it feeling like I was behind and feeling like I didn't know as much as the people I was working with. And it passes, and you learn. And it's okay to learn on the job. And it's okay to not be ready.

 I think there are some people who are like prepared to raise their hand for absolutely anything, and there are some people who feel like they need to wait until they have all of their ducks in a row and their skillset developed for everything that they might face. I just tried to go into it with a lot of humility and a sense of humor about the fact that I knew less than everybody else in the room and try to figure out what my relationship was with the work that I was doing, and realize I could write about politics and world leaders, and what was happening in the most devastating, tense conflicts in the world from my position as somebody who didn't quite get it all and couldn't quite follow it all.

And it turns out that everybody in it feels the same way. Everybody's dealing with limited information. World leaders are coming together, and they think they've been prepared for the moment, and they're not. They think they understand who they're talking to, and they don't. And that sense of being able to move forward with confidence, even though you may not feel like you're ready, I think is something that I wish for a lot of people.

Images courtesy of Netflix/Alex Bailey

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producer on this episode was Trammell Sisson.

Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions).