Robert J. Sternberg is Professor of Human Development at Cornell University and Honorary Professor of Psychology at the University of Heidelberg, Germany. He is a past winner of the Grawemeyer Award in Psychology, and the William James and James McKeen Cattell Awards of the Association for Psychological Science. Sternberg has served as President of the American Psychological Association, and the Federation of Associations in Behavioral and Brain Sciences. His latest book is Adaptive Intelligence: Surviving and Thriving in Times of Uncertainty.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Seems to be something that we have to be more vigilant about in relation to technology, as it's affecting the way many people think and perceive the world. If you're using it too much, it's in some ways rewiring our brains, if we're susceptible or haven't experienced the world before the digital.

ROBERT J. STERNBERG

Yes, I think that's true. It's certainly rewired our brains and unfortunately created a reward system that often rewards the worst aspects of ourselves. The negative tweets and the negative postings are the ones that attract the most attention and tend to generate the most emotion, anger, and sometimes hate.

Are we looking at intelligence wrong? There are an awful lot of people who have graduated from top schools in the United States, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or great schools in other countries, who become leaders who are worse than incompetent. They make their countries worse rather than better. And the conclusion I came to is that we made a mistake, in that intelligence was originally defined by the founders of the field Alfred Binet, David Wechsler, and others, as the ability to adapt to the environment a requirement. And answering a vocabulary problem for an obscure word is not about adapting to the environment. So I began to wonder where we lost the train of thought. And the conclusion I came to is that colleges just forgot the original message of the founders of the field, and so we got immersed in these numbers that turn out not to mean that much. So I wrote about intelligence as the ability to get along in the world and hopefully make the world a little bit better.

And what I argue in the book is that we not only need to develop this kind of intelligence, we need to recognize that it's important, that getting A's in school and top scores on standardized tests, that's not what intelligence is about. And as you can see from some of our billionaires, some seem to rejoice in being intellectual clowns. So there are people who make serious efforts to make the world better, who fight pollution, who try to be good at what they do, you know, as judges or lawyers or as cleaning people or car mechanics, or doctors, but those aren't the ones you hear about. The ones you hear about are often those who have prestigious degrees and can't seem to do much with them. So that was the motivation for the book.

A lot of kids' parents are wealthy who can afford to give them the kind of upbringing that will propel them in the direction of prestigious universities, but often the main thing they care about is that their life will be good and not that they'll make the world better, not only for others in their generation but for their own kids. So what we need to be developing is not people's ability to solve cosign problems or remember obscure words, but how do you deal with a world that is falling apart and in which people are suffering and their ability to handle those problems is poor. I think in part because their education system is so grossly inadequate and tied to this sort of academic notion of memorizing a bunch of books, and you get an A, and you get your degree. And that's not what the world needs now. I think that's pretty clear. You could memorize an English-German dictionary. It doesn't mean you could speak German or English. You could memorize the psychology textbook. It doesn't mean you can apply psychology to the world. And our notions about education are just much too academically absorbent, rather than developing leaders who will make the world a better place.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

And in many countries Socialism, as it's been implemented, is flawed, but when we experience serious resource problems, it's only getting worse on various fronts from water insecurity, food insecurity, climate change, and all these related issues. So we do have to consider some of these collectivist, socialist, or cooperative solutions.

STERNBERG

I think what happens in the United States is that politics have become so cynical and so dishonest that the words are just thrown around to scare people. The politics in many countries, including my own, especially of one of the parties, is simply a politics of fear and anger. Scare 'em, make 'em angry. And to some extent, both parties in the United States are doing that. So I think that it's not about whether the word is socialism or collectivism, it's really that at this point, given the way things are going, if we don't look for a common good, we will destroy humanity. We can't keep doing this. The temperatures can't keep getting higher. The water shortages can't keep increasing. The storms can't keep getting worse. There are parts of the world already getting flooded. Is that the future we want? And I hope it's not, but people are so attuned to the short-term and individual gains that I worry about what kind of future the world has.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

And in your own domain, you are listening to others who have different perspectives. How have they introduced new creative pathways for your research?

STERNBERG

Now, we didn't purposely say let's create a diverse group, but the group is really diverse. And I find that to be enormously advantageous because it's not superficial diversity. What color is your skin? What ethnic group are you a member of? It's diversity of different cultures and different belief systems and then trying to find ideas that reflect the combination of our cultural upbringings. I think too much about diversity in the United States has become extremely superficial. The most important aspect is that people think differently, not just, you could have two people who are white who think more differently, or two people who are black, who think more differently than one who is white and one who is black. What's important is the intercultural interchange rather than just checkoffs of what ethnic group you are. What race you are. What sex you are. What gender you are. 

I think the biggest problem today isn't individualism but tribalism. At least in our country, it's become extremely tribal. And you've got these almost two warring factions who view each other with disdain. Sometimes almost it seems like hate, but, you know, contempt disguised that doesn't point to a positive future. You can't live that way. You just can't go on that way and keep a country intact. And we're not, the United States, isn't keeping the country intact.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

As you reflect on education and the kind of world we're leaving the next generation, what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

STERNBERG

I think the most important lesson for me is to figure out who you are and be that person and be that person to make the world a better place. So that's what I think is my most important lesson.

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producer on this episode was Sam Myers.

Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions).