Will AI become conscious? President Biden has just unveiled a new executive order on AI — the U.S. government’s first action of its kind — requiring new safety assessments, equity and civil rights guidance, and research on AI’s impact on the labor market. With this governance in place, can tech companies be counted on to do the right thing for humanity?
Susan Schneider is a philosopher, artificial intelligence expert, and founding director of the Center for the Future Mind at Florida Atlantic University. She is author of Artificial You: AI and the Future of Your Mind, Science Fiction and Philosophy: From Time Travel to Superintelligence, and The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness. She held the NASA Chair with NASA and the Distinguished Scholar Chair at the Library of Congress. She is now working on projects related to advancements in AI policy and technology, drawing from neuroscience research and philosophical developments and writing a new book on the shape of intelligent systems.
THE CREATIVE PROCESS
So even since Artificial You was published, these technologies you write about are developing exponentially. ChatGPT has come to market. How do you think we can capitalize on the opportunities of generative AI while ensuring responsible innovation for the benefit of all?
SUSAN SCHNEIDER
I'm using ChatGPT Plus, and you can do much better research. I think the scientific possibilities are amazing, and it's a very good research assistant. There are plugins you can use to go through scientific papers quickly. And if you feed it the right sort of data, it has near instantaneous access to a range of facts that helps me in my field. And I think any system that has these kinds of capacities...it's a sort of crowdsourced brain if you will. So it's roughly like the neocortex, very roughly. And it's a neocortex without a limbic system. So it's just an association engine without necessarily emotions, but it's able to quickly access a range of materials that humans can't. So there should be intriguing scientific discoveries, drug discovery, and computations. And of course, involving climate change.
So it's hard to tell exactly what the dangers are, but that's certainly one thing that we need to track that beings that are vastly intellectually superior to other beings may not respect the weaker beings, given our own past.
THE CREATIVE PROCESS
Going back to those basic philosophical questions. I think before we ask about AI and what we can do with AI, or how we might merge with it, on a personal level: Who is Susan Schneider? How do you define your sense of self? What makes you who you are and your perception? How do you know you're conscious?
SCHNEIDER
I am the type of person who's endlessly interested in different topics, and that can lead to really fun things. I'm also very worried about the future of humanity. Maybe that's an outgrowth of being a parent. I have three teenagers, and I worry about where AI is headed. We are at a really interesting point in technology, and it's sort of an honor to be alive right now to witness all this. But to go back to consciousness, this is a key aspect of my sense of life, and it always bothers me when people haven't thought about it. Like I asked my husband the other day: how can people go through life without really thinking about or appreciating the fact that they are conscious beings?
THE CREATIVE PROCESS
We have to think about AI governance, and going into the ethical terrain, we have these institutions that are already fractured, which makes these AI technologies more powerful. So who will own and control them? Do you envisage government involvement, individuals, or corporations? What are we giving away? How do we govern AI to ensure that there is an ethical dimension to its expanded powers?
SCHNEIDER
I work with Congress and some of the leaders in the intelligence community. There's work that's going on by AI companies, which may benefit humanity or may not, depending upon the AI regulations and the way that history plays out. And it's really hard to tell exactly what will happen. The first concern I have is with surveillance capitalism in this country. The constant surveillance of us because the US is a surveillance capitalist economy, and it's the same elsewhere in the world, right? With Facebook and all these social media companies, things have just been going deeply wrong. And so it leads me to worry about how the future is going to play out. These tech companies aren't going to be doing the right thing for humanity. And this gets to my second worry, which is how's all this going to work for humans exactly? It's not clear where humans will even be needed in the future.
THE CREATIVE PROCESS
And it seems clear to me that the humanities need to be at the heart of some of these discussions, or even somehow involved in the design process of AI and these new technologies.
SCHNEIDER
It's been surprising to me how quiet things have been in the humanities. Maybe we're all just taking it in, but I also think that - and this really makes me sad - the tech leaders have been looked at by the media and probably by the politicians themselves as being the important voices at the table for the implications of technology. And there's been a lot of confusion about scientific development versus speculation. So you're seeing everybody wanting to interview the CEOs at the big tech companies or the big AI researchers. And then all of a sudden the idea that they somehow have a monopoly on ideas about conscious machines, for example, or merging with AI. Elon Musk never stops with philosophical claims, and a lot of times you have to wonder what they're supposed to be doing for his stock values as opposed to whether they're true or not. But people just take this, sadly, as what the scientists or AI companies say. You know, well, "they know the science, so it's got to be true." But that is not the case. That's where the humanities should be more involved. And it's been a slow plotting situation to see people really step up. I've just been sort of taking it all in, and I've been doing a lot of advising in Washington. So maybe we're all waiting to see where this all goes, right? But I think at this point, I finally achieved a sort of confidence about how I think it's going to play out.
THE CREATIVE PROCESS
As you think about the future and what you tell your own children and family and students, what would you like them to know, preserve, and remember?
SCHNEIDER
I think people need to remember consciousness. I think it's the most central aspect of our existence. And I think we need to remember to appreciate that felt quality of experience and know what it is and know what it is not. So as we move forward and deliberate over the human future and grasp machine intelligence and see it increasing and improving, we need to understand what's distinctive about us. And I think having a better scientific and philosophical understanding of these questions is very important.
This interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Sam Myers and Katherine Gross. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.
Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions).
