As we're entering a world of advanced AI, what is the future of books? What makes stories enduring? And what role do literary agents play in nurturing authors and bringing great stories to the world?

Mark Gottlieb is a Vice President and top-selling literary agent at Trident Media Group. He represents a wide range of authors across genres, many of whom have been awarded prestigious prizes and have secured places on the New York Times bestseller list. Among other achievements, Mark has successfully optioned and sold books to film production companies where they were adapted into blockbuster hits, beloved by audiences and critics.

In addition to his work as an agent, Mark lectures on his experiences and craft at such noted venues as the Yale Writers’ Workshop, Cambridge University’s MSt in Creative Writing program, Columbia Publishing Course, and Sarah Lawrence College Writing Institute. He founded Emerson College's Wilde Press, and the  Stamford Literature, Arts & Culture Salon (SLACS), where he currently serves as president.

MARK GOTTLIEB

There's a lot of apprenticeship in our industry because historically it had to be that way, otherwise what you would have in publishing - there's still a lot of this - is a bunch of English majors trying to make sense of how to run a business, right?

Because book publishing or working at a literary agency - a talent agency for authors like I do - is at the crossroads of creative and business. And if you didn't have that kind of apprenticeship, someone to learn from at the company where you work, then we would all just be English majors just trying to feel our way in the dark. Although that's been changing in recent years. When I was going out for schools, I said to myself, Okay, I could go to Harvard or Columbia and get a degree in Comparative Literature, but what would that teach me about book publishing? I'd know a lot about books. I'd know a lot about reading and stories, which is also the essence of what we do, but I wouldn't know a lot about book publishing. So since then, there are now many more programs in book publishing. You can actually get a master's in book publishing now from many different universities like NYU and Columbia.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

You have a broad range of interests, and at Trident Media, you also broker film and television deals.

GOTTLIEB

I really have books that run the gamut between every kind of space because I've always been that way, very eclectic in my taste. I never understood people who just listened to one kind of music. I like the variety. I like all the different kinds of stories, and I think it's good to be in different spaces at the same time. It's good to diversify your portfolio.

We look at books in terms of all of the manifestations that a book can take. It could be an audiobook. It could be translated and published into many different languages. It could be a film or a TV show or in some cases for some of our authors made into merchandise like T-shirts or calendars or toys.

Oftentimes our books find their way into other mediums and so we work across a very wide space between fiction, nonfiction, children's books, and graphic novels. There are a lot of people who work at the agency because we happen to be book publishing's leading agency by number of deals and amount of money for deals going as far back as the year 2000.

We also work with very literary authors like Michael Ondaatje who wrote The English Patient and that movie that got tons and tons of Academy Awards and nominations. We have a very big-name children's book authors, representing Wonder by RJ Palacio, which is a #1 New York Times Bestseller. It's still in that spot on the list years after publication, published in over 50 countries. And the movie with Julia Roberts is set to be a Broadway play with the producer of Hamilton. And it's won every major award and is required reading in schools.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Books are so important. We’re living in a crucial decade and when you think about our current conflicts, how else can you work that out except through the written word?

GOTTLIEB

Sometimes I think fiction is sort of like self-help in disguise. After we go through a journey and a story, and we live the experience with the characters or the narrator, we come through the other side with a new understanding of everything. And in a way, like a message has been imparted to us on an even deeper level than if we just read it in a plain, nonfiction book that's trying to convey concepts to us. It makes it such that we've had almost an actual lived experience along with a character, which is a very, very powerful thing. 

That's why I do think storytelling kind of began that way. You know, if it's hard to say, whether language or cave drawings came about first, but that was, I think, the intention of, of storytelling. It was a means of survival, but also passing on lessons in life. That's still at the heart of it.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Lately there have been groups trying to ban certain books. And it’s distressing. On the bright side, if people are trying so hard to ban books, it means means people are still reading and valuing their importance.

GOTTLIEB

Behind all the book banning, I think it's to control people's minds. You know, education is power. And if you take that away from people, suddenly they're malleable. And then next thing, it's like being in a post-cultural revolution China under Mao Zedong or something like that.

It's no different than the book Fahrenheit 451, right? They're burning books in this science fiction world and then the guy whose job is to actually burn these books. In the process, he picks up a book and reads it and it changes him. And then he realizes these things aren't evil. They don't need to be burned or banned. Actually, they need to be saved. And there's a real reason they exist.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Right now there’s the Writers Strike in Hollywood. We've had a lot of recent speculation about AI and ChatGPT and if they could be used to replace writers.

GOTTLIEB

I was talking about this with someone the other day, about how there could be AI narrating audiobooks. But what I think it really comes down to is someone with a soul. It's not just the meat and potatoes of the plot of the book, but the actual quality of storytelling, the character development, the message behind the story, things like that. You know, some of the subtle nuances that I think machines will never be able to do, because they'll never have a soul. You know, they'll never be able to fully replicate. They can get very, very close.

The Writers Strike in Hollywood. The main reason why the writers are striking, of course, is because it comes down to the bottom line, which is, you know, the dollar. The fact that studios don't want to be precluded from being able to use AI in the place of writers is what's really salting the wounds, but I don't see it, at least not in the very, very near future happening. One, because, like we talked about, no soul in the machine, but two, the technology is a predictive technology. So it's sort of like you ask it a question or you begin writing a sentence and it can predict the next five words and then kind of build upon that. And it can only draw upon what's already out there in its existing knowledge base from the internet, from whatever people ask it. It's not going to have lived experiences like you and me. And the technology is not at the point yet where I think it could be writing a novel. There are a lot of text limitations to it, but I think if it ever did come to pass... Let's imagine a world where AI is like there was a ghost in the machine and could convince almost anyone. I think you'd have a lot of pushback from readers. You'd have a lot of pushback from writers and people who work within the publishing industry. 

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

What for you is the importance of storytelling and the arts? And what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

GOTTLIEB

I think that the important thing for people to really know about storytelling is that books are sort of like the oil paintings of the new media. It's a very fine art form, an old art form, and a story exists in everything, whether it's a photograph, a painting, a song, or a movie, it all began with a story. And stories have been here from the dawn of time. They're going to forever be in our existence, but I think people should just always have curious minds and seek out stories and storytelling and try to see the story in everything, not just look at things for face value.

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producer on this episode was Donna Sanders.

Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions).