Conversation with Journalist JACOB WARD · Author of The Loop: How AI Is Creating a World Without Choices and How to Fight Back · Host of The Rip Current Podcast

Civilization is really a very new and very glitchy thing. If you talk to evolutionary psychologists and people who've looked at how our brains have developed over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years, they'll tell you that our sense of wonder and creativity, as well as our ability to be cautious and rational, and to trust people we've never met to govern us, all of that kind of stuff—the vast majority of our decision-making actually rests on a much older, much more ancient system. We are so much more like primates than we like to think. Certainly, that's been the lesson of the last sort of 50 years of behavioral science. I was trying to marry a lot of research looking at the ways in which people are trying to build interesting technologies, but then deploy them to make money, and how tempting it is to throw those technologies at those ancient decision-making systems, especially because so much of our decision-making is instinctive. My worry with AI, of course, is that as we automate decision-making more and more, we use automated systems not only to entertain ourselves but to decide who gets a job, who gets a loan, and who gets bail. I worry that we're going to be in a position in 20 years where we don't have the internal compass we once did. We may have slid away from that higher human functioning—the creativity, the rationality, and all that stuff—and back toward a more primitive version of ourselves, because that's the part that gets played on by this kind of technology. And that's how all these companies wind up making money.