JUNE CHOI · YANNAI KASHTAN & BELINDA RAMIREZ

JUNE CHOI · YANNAI KASHTAN & BELINDA RAMIREZ

/

Coalition for a True School of Sustainability

In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu speaks with June Choi, Yannai Kashtan, and Belinda Ramírez from the Coalition for a True School of Sustainability. Amidst great fanfare, Stanford University created the Doerr School for Sustainability, which immediately said that it would accept funding from the fossil fuel industry. June, Yannai, and Belinda are helping lead the movement of students pushing back to dissociate from such funds. David asks what drives them and sustains them in building a True School of Sustainability.

IAN ROBERTSON

IAN ROBERTSON

/

Author of How Confidence Works: The New Science of Self-belief
Co-Director of the Global Brain Health Institute · Co-Leader of The BrainHealth Project

The book probes the science and neuroscience behind the idea that confidence can be learned, or whether it is something you inherit. Optimism, hope, and self-esteem are all concepts that are easily confused with confidence. But, as I show, they differ in one fundamental way - confidence empowers action. You can be an optimist who is hopeful that things will work out okay in the end without ever believing that you can play a part in that outcome, or indeed have any realistic grounds for that optimism. And you can have high self-esteem and feel good about yourself without feeling confident that you can achieve a particular goal.

RICK BASS

RICK BASS

/

Environmentalist & Story Prize Award-winning Author
Why I Came West · For a Little While · The Traveling Feast

I grieve the changes to the four seasons that are happening here in Montana. One of the great things about this place is having four distinct seasons, and now they're tilted. Some are short, some are long, and some don't exist anymore. And that's unsettling, to say the least. It's not a fear of what's coming. It's a grief for what's gone away. I'm mindful of the pressure that we are putting on the generations who follow us and the mandate to have fun, to be fully human, to be joyous, to celebrate, and to enjoy being in the midst of nature's beauty.

LIZA FEATHERSTONE

LIZA FEATHERSTONE

/

Journalist · Essayist · Author · Teacher
Columnist Jacobin Magazine · New Republic

We have passed the Build Public Renewables Act which mandates and requires the state's power authority the New York State Power Authority to build its own publicly funded renewables: renewable energy, wind, and solar. And this was a long, long hard hard-fought victory. And to say how it happened, we need to think back to the early Bernie days just after the Bernie Sanders' 2016 presidential campaign. Obviously, people were very disappointed that Bernie Sanders didn't win, but a lot of people were also very politicized by that campaign and by that moment. And so a lot of people were joining DSA (Democratic Socialists of America). At the same time, a lot of young people were becoming very aware and very anxious, disturbed, and deeply depressed by the climate crisis.

NAN HAUSER

NAN HAUSER

/

Whale Researcher
President of the Center for Cetacean Research & Conservation
Director, Cook Islands Whale Research

I don't think a lot of people realize how absolutely important whales are, and not just because they're beautiful and they make people happy, but whales carry nutrients from the depths they feed back to the surface. And there's this liquidy plume of fecal matter, and it's called the whale pump. And they bring all these nutrients upward with their tails by swimming up and down the water column, it's like an upward biological pump. And there's an incredible amount of nitrogen that's released in these plumes. And we get this great soup of nutrients. We get more from this nitrogen than all the rivers combined. And in the past, we recognized microbes and plankton and fish and that they recycled nutrients in the ocean, yet whales and other marine mammals have largely been overlooked and that's too bad because they are bioengineers. They help the climate so much because of all this creates more plankton by circulating the nutrients and fertilizing the phytoplankton with their poo.

JIM SHEPARD

JIM SHEPARD

/

Author of The Book of Aron · Project X · The World to Come starring Casey Affleck, Vanessa Kirby, Katherine Waterston
Winner of the PEN New England Award · The Story Prize · Ribalow Prize for Jewish Literature

In terms of what I'm writing, I'm always trying to make myself a more interesting human being. And so that means I'm coming across these human dilemmas where I'm like what would it have been like to be in that position? And that snags my emotional imagination. I do think that literature is all about extending the empathetic imagination. And so I'm always looking to educate myself in emotional terms, too. Because I'm very interested in the way we respond in those situations where it feels like we both have responsibility, and we don't have responsibility.

SARA AHMED

SARA AHMED

/

Author of The Feminist Killjoy Handbook
Independent Queer Feminist Scholar

You're more likely to progress if you say yes. It's a reproductive mechanism, which is why feminist culture knows so much about everything. We can explain how it is that institutions keep being reproduced in the same way. So what then do you do? Where do you go if your no has nowhere to go? And I think when you say no to the world, and you're pushed out by it, you still find your people. And that there's the world-making is in the people who find in the refusal of the institution a common ground.

ROB VERCHICK

ROB VERCHICK

/

Leading Scholar of Disaster & Climate Change Law
EPA Official under the Obama Administration · President of the Center for Progressive Reform
Author of The Octopus in the Parking Garage: A Call for Climate Resilience

I believe that the strongest machine we have, the strongest empathy machine that we have is literature. The best way to get people to feel what someone else is feeling is through literature and stories. And I also think that feeling and emotion are an important part of reasoning and governing too. It's not the only part, but I think you have to understand how people see the world and how they feel about the world. So in my classes, I teach law classes. I teach policy classes. I often assign novels. We read in one of my classes Their Eyes Were Watching God, the case about a hypothetical hurricane in Florida written by Zora Neale Hurston. We read Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood, which is a kind of dystopian novel that involves climate change. We've read The Handmaid's Tale in my classes. What's interesting about them is that they make us, they open up our imaginations and say, Oh, I never thought something like that could happen. We hope it doesn't, but it could, right? And so how do we change the way we look at the future? And it also changes, I think, the way that we understand people's lives.

LESLEY HUGHES

LESLEY HUGHES

/

Lead Author of IPCC 4th & 5th Assessment Reports
Director & Councillor of Climate Council of Australia

It's certainly not the case that scientists should be the only people communicating. We have to have everybody in this mix because we're all in this together. So we have to have good science that's communicated. We have to have smart engineers who can work on the technological solutions. We have to have lawyers who are undertaking climate litigation. We have to have creative artists who can tell stories and appeal to people's emotions. No one group should have a responsibility to solve the climate crisis. It's got to be all of those groups bringing what they call the time, the talent, and the treasure to work together on this. We are all in this together, and we've all got a suite of different skills that have to be harnessed to solve this problem.

MANIJEH MORADIAN

MANIJEH MORADIAN

/

Author of This Flame Within: Iranian Revolutionaries in the United States

So you start having Iranian students coming in the late 1950s. The numbers increased throughout the sixties and seventies. Tens of thousands of Iranian students, more than from any other country, come to the United States to study. At the moment, in 1979, the moment of the revolution, there were 50,000 or more students in the United States. So it's by far the largest foreign student population here. In the 1970s, it became possible for less affluent students to come. For the first time, there were more government scholarships available to certain groups of workers in the oil industry, for example, to their children. They were not blue-collar, but more like white-collar office workers. Before that, it had been mostly wealthy families who could afford to send their children abroad and who had access to education in the first place, but when you have less affluent students coming to less expensive, smaller colleges. By the 1970s, Iran had become so repressive that young people were trying to leave. They want to leave, and some of them want to leave intentionally to become activists and join the Iran student opposition movement.

JAMES BROWNING

JAMES BROWNING

/

Founder & Executive Director of F Minus
a Research & Advocacy Group Calling for Divestment from Fossil Fuel Lobbyists
Author of the novel The Fracking King

The lobbyists that represent the fossil fuel companies like ExxonMobil, Koch companies, and the American Petroleum Institute, they knew for years that the climate crisis would happen, and they've been telling us that it wouldn't. And right now in every state capital, the lobbyists are doing everything they can to slow the transition from fossil fuel to renewables. The sad fact is, these oil and gas lobbyists will never wake up one morning and say: I am worried about the climate crisis. I'm worried about my children. I am going to cut off ties with these oil and gas companies and stop taking their money. That will never happen. And I'm sad to say this, but it's been a long, long road to try to change their behavior with facts or reason.

TIM HEWLETT

TIM HEWLETT

/

Co-founder of Scientist Rebellion · Climate Activist · Astrophysicist

I think the more pernicious aspect is the way that science as a set of institutions fits into a paradigm that is doomed from the outset. For instance, if you look at the framing of the science within the IPCC reports and how that informs the construction of policy related to the climate around the globe, well, it's foundationally dishonest. If you frame an entire report around the need to keep temperatures below 1.5 degrees or 2 degrees, and all of the efforts that societies are going to make to do that, and you omit from the public discussion the fact that we have no chance whatsoever of achieving those goals.

SHEHAN KARUNATILAKA

SHEHAN KARUNATILAKA

/

Booker Prize-winning Author
The Seven Moons of Maali Almeida
Chinaman: The Legend of Pradeep Mathew

So this was the decision to write in the second person. A lot of people ask me: why? There are not many examples of this technique. The reason I opted for that is I was trying to figure out interviewing a ghost. And one of the challenges was: what does a disembodied voice sound like? The narrator's body has been chopped up and chucked in a lake. So, I figured that if anything survives the death of your body, it's perhaps the voice in your head. The voice in my head is in the second person. I don't know about your head or anyone else's head, but in mine, it's the second person. 

ANTHONY ARNOVE & HALEY PESSIN

ANTHONY ARNOVE & HALEY PESSIN

/

Co-Editors of Voices of a People’s History of the United States in the 21st Century
with contributions from Angela Y. Davis, Nick Estes, Colin Kaepernick, Rebecca Solnit, Christian Smalls, Viet Thanh Nguyen, Howard Zinn, Rev. William Barber, Bree Newsome, Kimberlé Crenshaw, Tarana J. Burke, Dream Defenders, Sins Invalid, Mariame Kaba, Naomi Klein, among others

We have to create alternative institutions to understand history. And to have conversations about how we can intervene because these conversations are increasingly being criminalized, and librarians are being fired and punished. Teachers are also being fired. Whole colleges are being taken over and certain courses are being labeled as not credit-worthy and being canceled. And while conversations around critical race theory and other topics are being declared illegal, there's a long history of book banning in this country. There's a long history of criminalizing dissent in this country, but I do think we all have to recognize that we're in a much more dangerous moment right now, where a new form of McCarthyism is emboldened and we have to speak out against that. - Anthony Arnove

CATHERINE CURTIN & KATE MUETH

CATHERINE CURTIN & KATE MUETH

/

"I don't know why we would really want to tell stories without being connected to the meaning. And I think that's especially for women, but I do think for human beings, that is how we can work as hard and be able to get up the next morning and keep going. Because we are working through the meaning, and it feeds us as we're like making sense of it all, trying to make sense of it, and for being in community and communion.” - Kate Mueth
”What we've done today is we've made everything so fast and so easy that I think there's something to the creative process about it being a little bit more of an exploration than it is wham bam, it's done. Let's go have lunch. And I think there is something to the creative process where it's allowed to develop. It's called process because it is a process. I'm always glad to just relax in the creative process, and I'm always very grateful for that. I think it's why I do so much indie film because it's really fun.” -Catherine Curtin

STEPHANIE FELDSTEIN

STEPHANIE FELDSTEIN

/

Population & Sustainability Director of the Center for Biological Diversity
Author of The Animal Lover’s Guide to Changing the World
Take Action: Save Life on Earth

Pretty much everything we do in our lives from the moment we wake up and take a shower, we're using water – that's shared resources. We're using energy that, for most of us, unfortunately, still comes from fossil fuels. We are making decisions about what we eat. We're making purchases that have an impact on the planet and on other animals based on where they came from and what they're made of. There are so many entry points for people to take action and start making changes in their own lives. And that's really important for people to start with what feels right to them. That's a great way to start getting involved in this.

SILVIA FEDERICI

SILVIA FEDERICI

/

Scholar · Educator · Feminist Activist
Author of Caliban and the Witch
Re-enchanting the World: Feminism and the Politics of the Commons

When I came to America I had a shock. I never knew what it meant to be in a country that seems to have no history, being in a place where you feel like you are nowhere, you could have been dropped by a plane in a cultural, historical desert. In the United States, they're destroying historic buildings. They've paved over cemeteries of African slaves. They're changing the environment so that memory is destroyed.

Because you are placing yourself in a broader arc of time, I asked a woman from Guatemala: how can women keep fighting for so much power? And she said, "Because, for us, the dead are not dead." This gives them the courage to go on when everything seems to be lost. I think that this is the kind of struggle that we need to make against war, against the destruction of nature.

MARK HOWDEN

MARK HOWDEN

/

Director of the Climate Change Institute at The Australian National University
Vice Chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
Co-recipient of the 2007 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE

We live in a diverse world, and we're in a funny time where we sometimes see the best of humanity and the worst of humanity. And I think what we need to do is be very strong in wanting to lift the game of each other and ourselves. And so I think that's one of the sort of key things. Particularly, young people should be more demanding that we behave better towards each other and care more about each other and the world that we live in. In terms of these heatwaves, droughts, and fires that the world is seeing, which we thought were going to hit us in 2050 or 2070, are hitting us now in 2023. So, those risks are coming much faster and harder than we thought they were going to come. And so, in many cases, we're unprepared for the severity of these changes.

SUE INCHES

SUE INCHES

/

Author of Advocating for the Environment: How to Gather Your Power and Take Action
Environmental Advocate · Educator · Fmr. Director, Maine Department of Marine Resources
Fmr. Deputy Director, State Planning Office

So to me, the connection is just being outdoors. It really brings energy, to my life and it brings energy to my work. And I think for a lot of people, this is true, that nature is kind of the place where they can regenerate their energy. And if people haven't experienced that, I encourage them to try it, because nature can be very restorative. So, absolutely there's a connection between health, the outdoors, and between environmental issues and creating a healthy, clean environment for future generations.

SIMON DALBY

SIMON DALBY

/

Author of Pyromania: Fire and Geopolitics in a Climate-Disrupted World
Professor Emeritus at Wilfrid Laurier University

We also need to note most people move locally rather than globally. In the discussions about climate refugees, people are going to be dislocated. There are obviously going to be places that are going to become quite literally uninhabitable because they're too hot and too dry, or they've been flooded so frequently that they're just not sustainable. That said it is also worth pointing out that this climate change process is playing out in a global economy, which is also changing where people live and how people live very rapidly. the migration from rural areas to urban systems has been massive over the last couple of generations. We became an urban species.